Leeujag, soos hy moet afloop.

[DWB]

Nog een:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OCD0ktl9-w

of

[Hein22]

Die ph in die eerste video het saam met my op technikon geswot.. sy bynaam in koshuis was poacher gewees. Die lewe behandel hom goed, sien hy het bietjie gewig opgetel..

[PWV]

Die leeu hardloop nie weg nie want hy is geteel en dus mak of half mak. Hy vertrou mense, want tot dusver as hy mense gesien het, het hulle vir hom kos gebring of 'n paar meter weg anderkant die draadheining gestaan en oe en aahh en foto's geneem.
Mooi loop

Koos, hoeveel gevaarlike grootwild ondervinding het jy en kan ons aanmeem dat SA jagters net artikels gaan plaas vorentoe oor Bok jag alleen.

Frederik
Niemand het gekla oor leeu-jag-video's nie. Niemand het gesê net bok-skiet-viedeo's moet geplaas word nie. Niemand het gesê dit is oneties nie. Ek mag egter kyk na 'n video en dan sê of ek daarvan hou of nie.

Dit waarvan jy Koos nou hierbo beskuldig, dink ek is heeltemal irrelevant!

Groetnis

[Frederik]

Oom PW ek het niemand beskuldig nie net vrae gevra?

[Swede]

Die leeu hardloop nie weg nie want hy is geteel en dus mak of half mak. Hy vertrou mense, want tot dusver as hy mense gesien het, het hulle vir hom kos gebring of 'n paar meter weg anderkant die draadheining gestaan en oe en aahh en foto's geneem.
Mooi loop

Koos, hoeveel gevaarlike grootwild ondervinding het jy en kan ons aanmeem dat SA jagters net artikels gaan plaas vorentoe oor Bok jag alleen.

Frederik
Niemand het gekla oor leeu-jag-video's nie. Niemand het gesê net bok-skiet-viedeo's moet geplaas word nie. Niemand het gesê dit is oneties nie. Ek mag egter kyk na 'n video en dan sê of ek daarvan hou of nie.

Dit waarvan jy Koos nou hierbo beskuldig, dink ek is heeltemal irrelevant!

Groetnis

Kan nie meer met jou saam stem nie Oom PW, wat het die plasing van stories in SA jagters met die onderwerp te doen?

[Jean Marais]

Kyk, gun elke diertjie sy plesiertjie, maar leeujag ... nie vir my nie dankie.

[Beer (Christo)]

Kan iemand Stephen Palos se brief wat hy 20 November op Chasa se Facebook blad geskryf het hier kom sit.

Hy bespreek onder andere die 'argumente' tussen biltong jagters en trofee jagters en dat dit net die beeld van jag skade kan doen.

[Eugene]

Die ENIGSTE verskil tussen die jag van 'n leeu en die jag van 'n rooibok of vlakvark is emosie...

[Swede]

Die ENIGSTE verskil tussen die jag van 'n leeu en die jag van 'n rooibok of vlakvark is emosie...

Verwys jy na 'n wilde leeu of 'n geteelde leeu? Daar is seker emosies betrokke veral gesien in die lig van "canned hunting" en die onetiese wyse waarop hierdie leeus gejag word. Dit is dan dieselfde om 'n rooibok of vlakvark te skiet wat hand groot gemaak is. Weet nie hoeveel jagters hierdie tipe wild sou wil "jag" nie. Ek is nie een van hulle nie.

[FCLoretz]

CHASA COMMENT ON SERIOUS ANTAGONISTIC THREATS BY THE PUBLIC AND SOME PERSONALITIES ON THE HUNTING EXPLOITS OF MELISSA BACHMAN

It is with great concern that we note the plethora of debased and uncalled for attacks on a lady who had chosen to come to South Africa and partake in a legal, sustainable and responsible activity, spending her money to the benefit of both people and wildlife here. Two particularly gratuitous actions were that of the Sunday Times splashing typically biased and emotional coverage on their front page of 17 November, and of radio personality and public speaker, Jeremy Mansfield’s base and vulgar language to Ms Bachman on his very public Facebook page.

We are fortunate that the majority of South Africans have the good sense to realise what the concept of Conservation by Sustainable Utilisation is, and that in a resource rich, but poverty imbalanced nation (and continent) such as ours, every resource must be utilised to its most efficient benefit. No one specie takes precedent over another in a balanced conservation solution, and emotionally (politically correct) driven policies would destroy our hugely successful conservation strategy in short order. Ms Bachman’s activities both here and in other countries does just that; bring the conservation benefit to the grass roots where it matters. This is sustainable utilisation in action. Perhaps, just like not thinking of the abattoir deaths of the meat & chicken people consume, so should those who cannot understand or accept hunting, not put their mind to any aspects of conservation as they clearly cannot comprehend the reality of it.

We call on those in the media who are inclined to believe they have the right to run with an emotionally charged attack against people who are simply carrying on a fundamental human activity, in a legal and beneficial way to contact us should they wish to be steered in the direction of a proper and balanced understanding of hunting, conservation by sustainable use and the national strategy relating to it. Perhaps proper balanced journalism will then prevail.

Stephen Palos - Cell number: 082 905 7400 CHAIRMAN

[Eugene]

Die ENIGSTE verskil tussen die jag van 'n leeu en die jag van 'n rooibok of vlakvark is emosie...

Verwys jy na 'n wilde leeu of 'n geteelde leeu? Daar is seker emosies betrokke veral gesien in die lig van "canned hunting" en die onetiese wyse waarop hierdie leeus gejag word. Dit is dan dieselfde om 'n rooibok of vlakvark te skiet wat hand groot gemaak is. Weet nie hoeveel jagters hierdie tipe wild sou wil "jag" nie. Ek is nie een van hulle nie.

Waar in SA kan nog wilde leeus gejag word?

99,9% van die bokke wat op die forum geskiet is hierdie afgelope jaar, is ook "canned hunting"... Wat is die verskil? Weereens emosie... Dieselfde ou wat 'n rooibok of eland of koedoe op 'n 500ha plaas "jag", het 'n probleem met 'n leeu jag op 1000ha, hoekom? Die emosie wat leeus by ons aanwakker... Dieselfde met olifante en luiperds.

[mariusr]

Die ENIGSTE verskil tussen die jag van 'n leeu en die jag van 'n rooibok of vlakvark is emosie...

Dit is seker so!? leeus en luiperds wys gewoonlik die skoot en kan ontstellend wees waar bokke pasief optree as geskiet word! Aan die ander kant sal ek ook nie koedoe of vlakvark wil skiet wat half mak is nie en gewoond aan mense is nie!Die ander punt is mens kan nie leeu eet nie en baie jagters voel sterk daaroor.Die debat is eintlik al hol gery oor geblikte jag maar daar is verseker sy voordele en ook sy nadele wat sommige beskou as eties! Gelukkig is ons nie almal die selfde nie anders was dit maar vrek vervelig gewees het! Respekteer elke ou se siening!

[VdWalt]

[quote="Eugene
Waar in SA kan nog wilde leeus gejag word?
99,9% van die bokke wat op die forum geskiet is hierdie afgelope jaar, is ook "canned hunting"... Wat is die verskil?
[/quote]
Ek sien dit so en dit is dalk heeltemal verkeerd en sal nie die eerste keer wees wat ek
verkeerd is nie.

Die verskil is daai leeu het nie op die 1000ha plaas groot geword waar hy vanaf
die ouderdom van 6 maande soos n bok (Nov gebore en April begin jag in erns) geleer het
dat as daar mense op die 1000ha rondsluip daar gevaar is nie. Teen die tyd dat daai ram
5 jaar oud is weet hy "trust no-one".

Vir 5 jaar as die leeu mense gesien het, het hy geweet lunch is oppad. So dit gaan nie net
oor die groote van die plaas nie maar ook oor die dier se siening (vertroue) van mense.

Elke aand slaap jou hond op die bank, dan kom die dominee huis besoek doen en jy klap
vir Vlekkie van die bank af, (jy kan die verbasing in sy oe sien) dan maak dit nie saak
hoe groot jou tuin is nie - dit gaan oor daai paar meter tussen julle op daai oomblik.

[Stefan764]

Interessante seining VdWalt.....thanks....

[Eugene]

VdWalt, ek wil nie die topic ontspoor nie, maar daar is darem gevra dat ons moet kommentaar lewer.

Interessante punt wat jy noem. Ek dink in die nuwe SA Jagter, praat hulle van jagplase waar die bokke aangekoop word net voor die jagseisoen en dan binne 3 tot 6 maande gejag word. As ek reg onthou praat hulle van 600ha plase waar 750 bokke per jagseisoen afgehaal word... Dit verander die prentjie ne, want hoe gaan jy nou weet of die rooibokkie wat jy skiet, al die wegkruipplekkies ken en daar grootgeword het?

Ek self is nie 'n leeujagter nie en het geen begeerte om 'n leeu te jag nie. Dis my opinie, maar ek respekteer die ou wat graag een wil skiet en ook die ou wat leeus teel om gejag te word, se opinie ook.

Geno het genoem dat as jy 'n wilde leeumannetjie skiet, kom daar 'n nuwe "trop leier" en byt die vorige mannetjie se kleintjies dood. Leeus wat in aanhouding gebore word (soos op leeuplase), leer nie om te jag nie en kan dus nie oorleef sonder dat hulle gevoer word nie. Hulle word geteel om gejag te word.

Watter is die "greater evil"? In my opinie, gee geteelde leeus die "wilde" leeus in reservate, 'n groter kans op oorlewing. Want 'n man wat geld het en 'n leeu wil skiet, gaan hom skiet, come hell of high water...

Manne, asseblief, ek baklei nie, dis maar my opinie en ons kan lekker gesels daaroor. Ek sê glad nie ek is reg en jy verkeerd nie. Die jag in die video lyk vir my alles "above board".
Groetnis

[mariusr]

Die was glad nie die norm van leeu jag in die verlede nie en baie aanvaar dit nie omdat party glo daar is niks mee verkeerd nie. Die mensdom pas altyd goed aan om hom te pas!? Suid Afrika is die enigste land in die wereld wat geblikte leeu jag aanbied so ver ek weet!? As jou hond baie siek en oud is en jy besluit jy gaan hom nie veearts toe vat want dood is dood jy gaan hom self verlos deur te skiet of so iets!? Is dit reg of verkeerd!?

[James Wilson]

Hier waar ek n bestaan maak(of ten minste probeer ) is dit nog soms moontlik om tussen 1 en 2 skuins te le. ek het rustig nou die topic deurgelees. moet se: goeie video, baie geluk. as n leeu op my spyskaart was, sal ek die manne gekontak het.

ek het geen behoefte aan leeujag nie, maar besef die waarde daarvan. persoonlik sien ek weer uit na iets soos n ou buffel bul. so is ons seker maar almal anders bedraad.

ek sien egter hierdie topic is op die punt om persoonlik of negatief te raak. lees maar mooi wat die man se wat jou antwoord of n vraag vra, dink sommer lekker oor n koppie koffie aan jou antwoord en gee dan n smaakvolle antwoord.

swart op wit lyk n aanmerking of antwoord baie keer vreeslik negatief of selfs beledigend, en was dit nooit die intensie nie.

[Frederik]

Nog 'n vraag vir Koos Barnard:

Hoekom is Media24 besig om ons rugby springbok spelers af te kraak omdat hulle jag en dit ook dieselfde maatskappy is wat SA Jagters en Man Magnum tydskrifte besit?

http://www.news24.com/Travel/South-Afri ... A.facebook

[Beer (Christo)]

CHASA COMMENT ON SERIOUS ANTAGONISTIC THREATS BY THE PUBLIC AND SOME PERSONALITIES ON THE HUNTING EXPLOITS OF MELISSA BACHMAN

It is with great concern that we note the plethora of debased and uncalled for attacks on a lady who had chosen to come to South Africa and partake in a legal, sustainable and responsible activity, spending her money to the benefit of both people and wildlife here. Two particularly gratuitous actions were that of the Sunday Times splashing typically biased and emotional coverage on their front page of 17 November, and of radio personality and public speaker, Jeremy Mansfield’s base and vulgar language to Ms Bachman on his very public Facebook page.

We are fortunate that the majority of South Africans have the good sense to realise what the concept of Conservation by Sustainable Utilisation is, and that in a resource rich, but poverty imbalanced nation (and continent) such as ours, every resource must be utilised to its most efficient benefit. No one specie takes precedent over another in a balanced conservation solution, and emotionally (politically correct) driven policies would destroy our hugely successful conservation strategy in short order. Ms Bachman’s activities both here and in other countries does just that; bring the conservation benefit to the grass roots where it matters. This is sustainable utilisation in action. Perhaps, just like not thinking of the abattoir deaths of the meat & chicken people consume, so should those who cannot understand or accept hunting, not put their mind to any aspects of conservation as they clearly cannot comprehend the reality of it.

We call on those in the media who are inclined to believe they have the right to run with an emotionally charged attack against people who are simply carrying on a fundamental human activity, in a legal and beneficial way to contact us should they wish to be steered in the direction of a proper and balanced understanding of hunting, conservation by sustainable use and the national strategy relating to it. Perhaps proper balanced journalism will then prevail.

Stephen Palos - Cell number: 082 905 7400 CHAIRMAN

Dankie Frederik, maar daar was nog 'n brief waarin hy spesifiek verwys het na die onenigheid tussen jagters. Sal probeer om dit te plaas maar sukkel met die iPad

[FCLoretz]

Nog 'n vraag vir Koos Barnard:

Hoekom is Media24 besig om ons rugby springbok spelers af te kraak omdat hulle jag en dit ook dieselfde maatskappy is wat SA Jagters en Man Magnum tydskrifte besit?

Media24 het meer as een publikasie. Sekerlik het Oom Koos nie beheer oor wat die ander mense skryf en doen nie. Hy is nie die redakteur van News24 nie.

[Frederik]

Frederik beteken dit dan nie ons is besig om teen wind te baklei vir ons regte om te jag nie want die groenes lag en besit in elk geval die 2 jag tydskrifte ?

[Beer (Christo)]

20 November 2013

OPEN LETTER FROM CHASA’S CHAIRMAN – MELISSA BACHMAN

Dear Hunters

Although I have received overwhelmingly strong support from hunters for the press release I penned for CHASA regarding the outcry over the Lion Hunt of Melissa Bachman, there have been a very small number of hunters who have challenged my (and CHASA’s) pro lion hunting stance. These comments vary from some who believe hunting ANY inedible specie is wrong, to others who bemoan the practice of canned shooting or the hunting of captive bred animals, and those who object to her apparent glee which she has placed very publicly on social media. All these commentators have pointed out their own personal ethos which I appreciate tends to be the more purist, hard hunting & moderate off take style of hunting.

CHASA as an umbrella organisation has many differing styles and types of hunter within its ranks. Apart from the typical “biltong” hunter as most SA hunters are referred to, we have groups hunting with the use of birds of prey, hunting over hounds, wing shooters, those who focus on making a recreational activity out of damage causing animal control, handgun hunters and more. The fact is that specific styles of hunting and the character of the people who hunt are as diverse as humankind can possibly be. There are those who would never shoot from a vehicle and those who shoot in no other manner.

Our function is to ensure the Freedom to Hunt. There are THREE FUNDAMENTALS which we apply when we decide which hunting activity to protect. It must be LEGAL, SUSTAINABLE and HUMANE hunting. Legal is probably the simplest of these three to define and our biggest challenge here is to engage with government to ensure laws are reasonable, logical, aim to achieve the other fundamentals, and are easy for hunters to comply with.

Sustainable is often misunderstood. Sustainable does NOT of itself imply there MUST be a direct benefit to conservation as such, but rather that it must NOT work AGAINST conservation. I see a lot of comment that we hunt to conserve. We don’t. We hunt because it’s in us to do so, as a deep seated human imperative (supressed in many urbanised folk) but real enough for those of us who feel it. The conservation is simply a natural consequence of hunting, particularly as we have over time developed magnificent conservation models based on our desire to preserve hunting (The history of game law development worldwide bears this out) A true hunter would feel in his gut if his hunting were taking more than nature could bear.

Humane is often misconstrued especially when we hear the blurb of animal rightists and some misinformed members of the public debating speciesism. In simple terms from a hunter’s perspective, we need to do everything within our means to ensure the quickest, surest and least stressful death of the animal being hunted. In this regard we need to be careful of pointing fingers at those who don’t adhere to our own specific personal preferred hunting ethos. An animal shot in the head or heart from a vehicle does NOT die a less humane death than one shot from the hunter on foot. A lion or elephant properly shot with the appropriate calibre & bullet does NOT die a less humane death than a jackal or a springbuck does. Any hunter who panders to these myths may believe that animal rightists will accept his more “ethically elevated” approach to hunting and be satisfied to let him carry on hunting because of it. This is not true!

Animal rightists are a fringe element culture, but carry enough passion and extremism to influence huge chunks of public opinion. Their STATED ambition is the eventual demise of ALL forms of human use, domination or ownership over animals, period! They are fully aware that their more radical objectives would be a hard-sell to folk, so they have devised a simple strategy, based on the domino effect. Knock over the easiest targets first and keep moving along the line as you progress. You may well believe your own hunting ethic should be the minimum acceptable standard now, and even support legislation making it so. But that would make YOUR style the next one in the targets of these extremists. In this debacle I have even had an engagement with a group of big game fisherman who were attacking the lion hunt, but when I pointed out that they apply a similar “use model” as hunters when they fish, they put up an incredibly feeble argument to try and differentiate the activities. How silly, and how dangerous for the fishing community? ALL users of nature’s bounty need to support one another regardless of your own particular personal ethos, provided the three fundamentals are adhered to. The argument that only food is a legitimate use, and the only reason to hunt is particularly concerning. If we succeed with this argument then it’s a simple next step for animal rightists to say alternative food sources are available. We DON’T hunt anymore to stay off starvation. There is a lot of cultural, health, spiritual and educational reasons to hunt, and yes we must admit there’s an element of ego involved. It’s part of the human psyche.

In short, we need to do what hunters do best; be honest and upfront. What we must not do is start an internal feeding frenzy pointing fingers at each other, and supplying our adversaries with ammunition against us. We know what we do is just and right, and for now I can assure you so does the relevant parties in government. That’s what we achieve in our constant positive engagements with them. We need to be more mindful of how the public needs to be positively influenced to understand hunting, without us being defensive about it. If we are to hunt into future generations we cannot hide hunting away from public scrutiny so instead we have to socialise the public to hunting by our constant positive engagements, without the abusive language which is so often used by the anti-hunters.

Kind Regards

Stephen Palos - Chairman
CHASA

Manne lees hier en dan besluit jy of die debatte oor biltong jag vs leeu jag vs trofee jag enigsins bevorderlik is vir jag in die algemeen.

[FCLoretz]

ons baklei nog altyd teen die wind. Die groenes wil al vir jare 'n stop aan ons jagte sit. Maar jy kan nie verwag dat Oom Koos antwoorde bied vir wat ander publikasies doen onder dieselfde media groep nie.

Toe daar aangekondig is dat magnum en SA Jagter deur dieselfde maatskappy besit word het baie lede gal gebraak op die forum en sover gegaan om te se dat Magnum sy individualisme sal verloor. Dit in my opinie nog nie gebeur nie.

So kan jy ook nie verwag dat 'n ander publikasie onder die M24 geredigeer word net omdat daar nou 2 jag en geweer publikasies in hulle stal is nie.

[DawieKotze]

Kyk bietjie hoeveel verskillende opinies in Media 24 saamgegooi is.

http://www.media24.com/en/organogram.html

Daar is geen manier dat hulle standpunt gaan inneem met die sage nie. Dit sal ekonomiese selfmoord wees!!

Groete

Dawie

[Swede]

ons baklei nog altyd teen die wind. Die groenes wil al vir jare 'n stop aan ons jagte sit. Maar jy kan nie verwag dat Oom Koos antwoorde bied vir wat ander publikasies doen onder dieselfde media groep nie.

[glow]Toe daar aangekondig is dat magnum en SA Jagter deur dieselfde maatskappy besit word het baie lede gal gebraak op die forum en sover gegaan om te se dat Magnum sy individualisme sal verloor. Dit in my opinie nog nie gebeur nie. [/glow]
So kan jy ook nie verwag dat 'n ander publikasie onder die M24 geredigeer word net omdat daar nou 2 jag en geweer publikasies in hulle stal is nie.

Ek wonder wat gaan gebeur as Ron Anger loop?