Wat gaan aan met lam pryse????

[Wayne]

Our lamb price is R50 - R52 at the moment, it was R55 a wk ago,Queenstown area, but I do not want to get into an argument with anyone along the food chain, because we all need each other, We all have overheads so let us stop mentioning them. My problem is that we do not get paid for our 5th quarter, and most times you will find that the off cuts ( shanks etc.) are selling for more than the farmer got paid for the carcass, now that is wrong. You also hear the abattoirs saying they had to sell the meat at cost or under cost due to oversupply etc. but price is still high at shops, that makes the sum even worse.The other thing is that when the meat price drops to the farmer, you do not see a drop at the supermarkets. I wish I could put a 20% profit mark up on my stock, but I can not as us farmers are told what we are going to be paid for our stock, we are price takers. Imagine going into a supermarket and filling your trolley and when you get to the till, you set the price - now you know what happens to us.
Yes, the way to go for farmer and consumer is cut the middle men out - buy direct from farm - whole or half sheep, cut the way you want.
And by the way, this goes for everything a farmer sells, not only lamb.

[Kalahari]

Our lamb price is R50 - R52 at the moment, it was R55 a wk ago,Queenstown area, but I do not want to get into an argument with anyone along the food chain, because we all need each other, We all have overheads so let us stop mentioning them. My problem is that we do not get paid for our 5th quarter, and most times you will find that the off cuts ( shanks etc.) are selling for more than the farmer got paid for the carcass, now that is wrong. You also hear the abattoirs saying they had to sell the meat at cost or under cost due to oversupply etc. but price is still high at shops, that makes the sum even worse.The other thing is that when the meat price drops to the farmer, you do not see a drop at the supermarkets. I wish I could put a 20% profit mark up on my stock, but I can not as us farmers are told what we are going to be paid for our stock, we are price takers. Imagine going into a supermarket and filling your trolley and when you get to the till, you set the price - now you know what happens to us.
Yes, the way to go for farmer and consumer is cut the middle men out - buy direct from farm - whole or half sheep, cut the way you want.
And by the way, this goes for everything a farmer sells, not only lamb.

Goed opgesom Wayne. like.

[Carl]

Manne ek sou enige dag my lam eerder by julle kom haal. Ek hou van ou Robbie en hy doen goeie werk. Maar dis darem baie lekker om so bietjie te kuier en dalk 'n staan rib proe stukkie te vat. Onder n kameeldoring of by Wayne binne die dik mure van sandsteen (ons mense die kant van die Magalies ken nie koue nie). Nou ja tyd maak dat mens nie kan nie.

[wlm]

Our lamb price is R50 - R52 at the moment, it was R55 a wk ago,Queenstown area, but I do not want to get into an argument with anyone along the food chain, because we all need each other, We all have overheads so let us stop mentioning them. My problem is that we do not get paid for our 5th quarter, and most times you will find that the off cuts ( shanks etc.) are selling for more than the farmer got paid for the carcass, now that is wrong. You also hear the abattoirs saying they had to sell the meat at cost or under cost due to oversupply etc. but price is still high at shops, that makes the sum even worse.The other thing is that when the meat price drops to the farmer, you do not see a drop at the supermarkets. I wish I could put a 20% profit mark up on my stock, but I can not as us farmers are told what we are going to be paid for our stock, we are price takers. Imagine going into a supermarket and filling your trolley and when you get to the till, you set the price - now you know what happens to us.
Yes, the way to go for farmer and consumer is cut the middle men out - buy direct from farm - whole or half sheep, cut the way you want.
And by the way, this goes for everything a farmer sells, not only lamb.

"Price takers" is werklik ons landbouers se probleem. Dit staan gelukkig darem enige man vry om self sy vleis te bemark en sodoende die bemarkingsketting tussen hom en die eindgebruiker te verkort. Onthou net elke stap het sy eie risiko's en gepaardgaande kostes.

[Christo]

And by the way, this goes for everything a farmer sells, not only lamb.

Wayne ek stem saam met jou. Maar dink aan die chaos op die plaas as ek direk aan kliente( eind verbruiker ) 150 ton vars produk per dag moet verkoop.4500 kopers per dag. En wie gaan die prys vasstel.

Toe maar. Ek weet dat ek nou nie appels met appels vergelyk nie. Ek gun net die skaap boer die pryse. Dit hou nie altyd nie.

[GvA]

Ek is baie bly vir die skaapboere. Lam kom nie verniet op slaggewig nie. Die lampryse die afgelope jaar was nie so gunstig. Om stoorlammers van 28kg na 48kg toe te voer sodat n karkas van 22kg te realiseer vat duur voer waarvan mielies die hoof komponent is. Mielies in die hoof skaapgebiede is duur. Bly n voorreg om jou eie lam te kan slag. Koop heel karkas is nog die beste, maar klomp geld vir verbruiker eenmalig.

[Wayne]

Carl, anytime, stay with us and hunt all around us, save on accommodation, and spend more on your hunting.
Christo, I hear what you are saying about the chaos, We need to accommodate those that want to buy direct from us - win win.
I sold my store lambs this wk for R26 / kg and they were 31.8kg - very happy with the return from a sheep.

[Smitstertjies]

Wayne, the problem is this. You are a producer , I am a marketer. You have the knowledge to produce. I have the knowledge to market and get customers to my store. Belief you me, that is two different worlds, but we need each other for our existence.

The farmers accuses the retail stores that their profits are to high. You say that farmers are price takers. That is not true. Nobody forces you to sell at that price. Nobody forces you to sell to any agent, abbatoir or anybody out there.You can sell to whoever you want to at any price you want to.But, this is where supply and demand rules kick in, and at the end that determines the price.You can market directly to a retail store and cut out the middle man. But then you will incur extra costs and risks, and that will cost you money.

As a Supermarket retailer, the only way I can survive in a very competitive industry is to be as efficient as possible in everything I do.

Unfortunately we are the end of the chain. People see the price on our shelves and try to relate it back to the producer, and then gets angry at us.That is unfortunately not the way economics work. Just as you are not forced to sell your lamb to anybody, no customer are forced to buy his lamb from my supermarket.

[NEGE3]

And by the way, this goes for everything a farmer sells, not only lamb.

Wayne ek stem saam met jou. Maar dink aan die chaos op die plaas as ek direk aan kliente( eind verbruiker ) 150 ton vars produk per dag moet verkoop.4500 kopers per dag. En wie gaan die prys vasstel.

Toe maar. Ek weet dat ek nou nie appels met appels vergelyk nie. Ek gun net die skaap boer die pryse. Dit hou nie altyd nie.

Waar woorde.

[Carl]

Smitstertjies,
Ekonomie 101, dis 'n feit die boer is 'n prysnemer dis hoe die teorie werk. Dit geld byna reg oor die wêreld in vryemark stelsel. Ek kan nie my mielie oes net inploeg as die prys nie reg is nie. Ek dink egter nie die wins marge van die kleinhandelaar is die probleem nie.

[Smitstertjies]

Smitstertjies,
Ekonomie 101, dis 'n feit die boer is 'n prysnemer dis hoe die teorie werk. Dit geld byna reg oor die wêreld in vryemark stelsel. Ek kan nie my mielie oes net inploeg as die prys nie reg is nie. Ek dink egter nie die wins marge van die kleinhandelaar is die probleem nie.

Carl, dis wel baie moeiliker vir die boer om prys te bepaal as ander manne in die ketting, maar dis nie onmoontlik nie. In die ou dae met landbourade was prysvasstelling aan die orde van die dag. Toe was boere prysnemers gewees. Vandag is dit n oop kapitalistiese stelsel waar elke ou mag vra wat hy wil.
Boere sal moet begin om uit die boks te dink om hulle produkte self te bemark, en nie net altyd aanvaar wat die mark of veiling oplewer nie. Hoekom dink jy gaan landbou produkte se pryse op of af? Dit is suiwer vraag en aanbod. Nou dat lam pryse hoog is, gaan klomp produsente dalk ook op die bandwagon spring. n Jaar van nou af is daar dan eweskielik weer n oor aanbod van lam, dan val die prys.

Ek verstaan die boere se struikelblokke en het baie simpatie met hulle. Hierdie is amper soos die gesprek tussen jagters en wildboere oor die prys van biltong wild. Hang af watter kant van die draad jy is, daar le jou simpatie

Ek wil net byse ek het BAIE respek vir boere. Was self n boerseun vir 18 jaar gewees. Die groot ding in SA is die regering moet begin om ons boere die nodige respek te gee wat hulle verdien. Boere is in my opinie ons grootste bate in die land. Ek het n maand terug n groot deel van Europa deur getoer, en met my gesprekke met die mense daar kon ek agter kom dat boere soos goud behandel word in daai gemeenskappe.

[Wayne]

Smitstertjies, as I said in my first post, I do not want to get into any arguments, but you can say what you want, we are price takers. Many of us younger farmers are thinking out of the box, web pages etc. but if you ask more than the going price for stock, it just does not sell.
We have a production sale, bulls and cows. This is on the open market, but again the buyers dictate what they are willing to pay, and yes we do have reserve prices, and try and get them.
I have a cattle and sheep feed lot and the A grade price for beef fell from R34 / kg last wk to R32/kg this wk. I tried to get the R34, and guess what, I am sitting with calves that should have gone, they have now eaten an extra wks food, and I hope the price does not drop even more next wk. The feed I buy, R / Ton, take it or leave it, maize price is set, R/ton.
Send your wool to be sold, Auction system - buyers dictate.
Everything you buy, you put onto the shelf at a mark up. We send an animal to the abattoir, the animal is slaughtered, we get paid for the meat only, oh yes, less 3% automatically as they say that the carcass loses an average of 3%. We have delivered meat, skin, oval , tail, but only get paid on the meat, roughly 50%. Us farmers have the biggest risk, but get the smallest portion of the pie.
I still would not want to change my occupation, as who else can brag by saying: " IF YOU HAVE EATEN TODAY, YOU CAN THANK A FARMER"
Farmers feed Africa!

[sako 30-06]

We send an animal to the abattoir, the animal is slaughtered, we get paid for the meat only, oh yes, less 3% automatically as they say that the carcass loses an average of 3%. We have delivered meat, skin, oval , tail, but only get paid on the meat, roughly 50%. Us farmers have the biggest risk, but get the smallest portion of the pie.
I still would not want to change my occupation, as who else can brag by saying: " IF YOU HAVE EATEN TODAY, YOU CAN THANK A FARMER"
Farmers feed Africa!

Wayne,what do you mean you only get paid for the meat?
Are you saying you're not getting paid for the oval and tails?

This is what I don't understand,Oval and tails used to be "scrap" foods.Now the butcheries and supermarkets charge just as much or more for the oval and tails as for the meat.We used to eat a lot of this,but it's just getting to expensive.
I saw oval the other day for R69/kg,we won't even mention the price for tails.

[Wayne]

Sako
That is exactly what I am saying, no payment for those, but the consumer pays a ...... fortune. The tail used to be on the carcass, now it is cut off and falls in the fifth quarter.
Last year I sold around 600 head of cattle out of my cattle feed lot, an average price of R650 per 5th quarter, now you do the sums.
At the moment it is just the way it is if you send to an abattoir, automatic 3% deduction on carcass as well, it is a complaint by many farmers and it has been taken up with the RPO to see what can be done to help the farmers.

[sako 30-06]

Sako
That is exactly what I am saying, no payment for those, but the consumer pays a ...... fortune. The tail used to be on the carcass, now it is cut off and falls in the fifth quarter.
Last year I sold around 600 head of cattle out of my cattle feed lot, an average price of R650 per 5th quarter, now you do the sums.
At the moment it is just the way it is if you send to an abattoir, automatic 3% deduction on carcass as well, it is a complaint by many farmers and it has been taken up with the RPO to see what can be done to help the farmers.

Damn,that's shocking.
How i wish I could buy tails directly from the farmer.At least he'll get his money worth and I won't pay R99/kg.
Madness.

[wlm]

Die kwessie oor die "vyfde kwart" nl. die afval,harslag en vel is nie 'n nuwe ding nie. Toe ons nog onder die gereguleerde stelsel gefunksioneer het is produsent apart daarvoor vergoed. Tans word die produsent net vergoed per kilogram karkasmassa.
Daar is egter 'n paar feite rondom die die prysvormingsmeganisme wat almal nie van weet nie. Na die afskaffing van die gereguleerde markte het slagpales soos paddastoele deur die land opgespring. Selfs nadat daar van hulle tot niet gegaan het is daar nog steeds 'n ooraanbod van slagkapasiteit in die land. Die kompetisie om diere vir 'n slagpale te werf is dus geweldig sterk. Die normale vrye markbeginsel van die man wat die hoogste slagprys aanbied kry die meeste diere, geld dus. Die logiese gevolg is dus dat 'n slagpale-eienaars dus nie in staat is om groot winsmarges te bewerkstellig nie.
Sy som lyk dus tipies so: Koop 20kg lam (geslagte gewig-3% vogverlies) aan teen R50/kg= R1000
Verkoop karkas teen R50/kg aan groot- of kleinhandelaar (-verdere 3% gewigsverlies)= R970
Verkoop vel R100 Sy slagkoste per karkas R60
Verkoop afval R20 Vervoer van karkas tot by afsetpunt R35
Verkoop harslag R20
Sy wins is dus R 1110 (970+100+20+20) - R1095 (1000+60+35) = R15/lam
Beslis nie 'n bedryf wat jy graag in wil wees nie!
Ek het nie 'n slagpale nie. Ek is 'n gewone skaapboer, maar ek verstaan darem my bedryf.

[Kalahari]

Nou gooi ek gou hier 'n bommetjie: alle feite en bespreking gaan nou nog huidiglik oor lam en lamprys. In my geval bv gaan ons na AB en B grade wat tans by my vir R38 geslag word, R12 /kg goedkoper as lam.
Hier is nou die plek waar die groot geld gemaak word, want in die supermark kry jy skaap of lam........ en ek vermoed (geen feite), behalwe wat ek by my sien as ek vir myself slag....... enige AB en B graad skaap gaan in die groothandel en slaghuis/supermark vir lam verkoop word. Nou kyk mens so bietjie na ander winsmarges van die middelmanne

Boer moet ook maar sorg dat hy elke jaar 'n "verlies" maak anders vreet Jan Taks ook nog daardie bietjie geld op wat oorbly........ die word elk geval weer in die plaas teruggeploeg.
Nimmer eindigende bose kringloop, maar dit is lekker om te boer.

Die boer doen mos maar alles vir die liefde van die saak en nie om geld te maak nie.

Groete

Die Kalahari se bosse begin ook nou al bot en blom, so die seisoen het gedraai en SOMER is hier.

[Wayne]

Wlm, yes what you say is partially true, and by the way I also understand the game, as do many other readers.
Do the sum again: The carcass was actually 20.6 kg - 3% = 20 kg @ R50 = R1000 ( the fatter animals lose less )
It is sold out straight away 20.6kg @ R50 = R1030
and a sheep's oval is around the R80, not R20. So now you are looking at R105 profit per sheep.
How many abattoirs sell the carcass out at the same price as they pay for it? Why I ask, is have you ever sold lamb to an abattoir and then asked a friend to phone the next day and get a price on lamb?
In the old days with the control system, you were charged a slaughter fee and your fifth quarter covered this and you had money over, which was paid to you.
I am not wanting to dig at the abattoirs here, but I feel that somewhere we should be getting something for our 5th quarter. The wgt loss thing is a definite, if that carcass hangs too long, the losses are big, but they must get their marketing right so that it does not happen, we as farmers must not have to subsidize that.

[cg rossouw]

Goed gestel Wayne, dan moet ek ook by voeg, as jy n lam weg laai wat minder as n 2 maande wol op het is die prys ook minder as lang wol. Dis nou dat die vel iets werd is vir die slag pale.
Ander ding is jy moet die prys vat, as dit lam is en hy sny na 2 tand val die prys. As hy te vet is val die prys en die diere vra nie hulle soek kos.

N vraag wat ek wil vra as mens by n supermark kyk op hulle pakke vleis, sit hulle nie die gradering van die vleis op nie, wat word van die nul en ene ens, daars nie prys verskille nie. Ek het al persoonlik n hele paar blokmanne vasgevra. Mens kan die verskille sien, verbruiker van vleis moet ingelig word daaroor. Mens koop net. Wat word van al die ander karkaste?

Ek kyk na ou state van my, in 2005\6 het ons tussen R26 en R29 vir lam gekry. Diesel was R6.10. Kyk wat kry ons nou en wat kos brandstof. As ons produkte elke week opgaan soos waarvoor ons goed aankoop sou nie gemoun het nie.

[Smitstertjies]

Cg, jammer ek tik nou op my foon, so reply is kort. Ek betaal vir A1,a2, dieselfde prys. Het nog nooit A0 ingekry nie. Ons doen bloktoetse elke week en pas pryse aan daarvolgens. Ek koop ook skape aan, B grade, maar dit word duidelik op die verpakking gewys as Mutton. Glo my , ons klante is baie vol strooi,as jy verneuk gaan jy uitgevang word. Rooivleis inspekteurs besoek ons ook gereeld. Daar mag supermarkte wees wat kanse vat, maar by my gaan jy dit nie kry nie. My A lammers word as lam geprys en B word as mutton geprys

[Wayne]

Cg, nice of a fellow farmer in my area to join the discussion.
Smitstertjies, we get paid a lot less for 1's, and they sell them at same price as 2's, not fair to anyone.

[wlm]

Smitstertjies
Die definisie van 'n prysnemer is iemand in die ketting wat nie sy prys kan verhoog as sy insetkoste verhoog nie.
Voor die onlangse opwaartse beweging was vleispryse vir 3 jaar ongeveer 30% laer as 2010. In die tydperk was daar geweldige prysstygings in brandstof, elektrisiteit, lone en veevoer. As prysnemers kon veeprodusente nie die kostestygings aan hulle kopers deurgee nie.
Ek weet nie hoe die kleinhandel sy pryse bepaal nie. Verduidelik asb. Ek vra nie om sarkasties te wees nie maar omdat ek regtig belangstel.

[wlm]

Wlm, yes what you say is partially true, and by the way I also understand the game, as do many other readers.
Do the sum again: The carcass was actually 20.6 kg - 3% = 20 kg @ R50 = R1000 ( the fatter animals lose less )
It is sold out straight away 20.6kg @ R50 = R1030
and a sheep's oval is around the R80, not R20. So now you are looking at R105 profit per sheep.
How many abattoirs sell the carcass out at the same price as they pay for it? Why I ask, is have you ever sold lamb to an abattoir and then asked a friend to phone the next day and get a price on lamb?
In the old days with the control system, you were charged a slaughter fee and your fifth quarter covered this and you had money over, which was paid to you.
I am not wanting to dig at the abattoirs here, but I feel that somewhere we should be getting something for our 5th quarter. The wgt loss thing is a definite, if that carcass hangs too long, the losses are big, but they must get their marketing right so that it does not happen, we as farmers must not have to subsidize that.

Wayne
Die syfers wat ek gegee het is nie fiktief nie. Dit is werklike syfers. Die gewigsverliese is werklik. Wanneer 'n slagpale 'n koeltrok vol karkasse by sy koper aflaai word die karkasse geweeg en daar word slegs vir die afgelaaide gewig betaal. Slagpale wat deur eerbare maatskappye bedryf word sal vee weeg wanneer hulle afgelaai word, die karkasse onmiddelik na slagting weeg en jou van 'n uitslagpersentasie op jou afrekeningstaat voorsien. Ek dink produsente wat vee voorsien aan slagpale wat nie hierdie werkswyse volg nie staan 'n goeie kans om verneuk te word.
Ons moet ook nie 'n vuil afval se prys met 'n skoon afval verwar nie. As jy weet van 'n plek waar vuil afvalle teen R80 verkoop word moet jy my laat weet. Ek kan dan groot geld maak.

[cg rossouw]

Wlm hier by ons gaan vuil afval tussen R80 en R100, gekrap gaan jy R160 tot R200 betaal

[wlm]

CG
Ek sal more weer seker maak van die prys dan laat weet ek.