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 Post subject: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:52 am 
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Dags?

Wat versamel die versamelaars op die forum?

Ek is lid(13 jaar) van Pretoria Wapen en Ammunisie Vereniging en my tema is "Stainless Noord-Amerikaanse vuurwapens" waarvan 90% Rugers is. Ek versamel rewolwers/pistole/gewere sowel as gedenkwaardighede.

Groete

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Ek is nie gerigstreer as n versamelaar nie, maar sal eerder myself beskou as n koniseur van Rugers. Sal bitter graag jou versameling eendag sou wou aanskou. Ek hoor dit is iets spesiaal! Jy moet tog asseblief vir my kyk vir n Target VT in 6.5 Creedmore. Ek sal jou ewig dankbaar wees!

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Last edited by Wouter Roets on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Weet nou nie of julle net van wapens hier praat nie maar ek versamel munte.

Spesifiek ZAR en Mandela reeks munte.


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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Sako versameling

Van die uniekes is 'n Sako Safari en Sako Super Deluxe.

Wens nog vir 'n .22 Varminter, 7x57, 300 H&H, Sako 75 SS in enige kaliber, Deluxe in AV.

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Ek is 'n lid by Southern African Arms and Ammunition Collector's Association (SAAACA) Gauteng Chapter. Ek het Oberndorf Mauser gewere versamel. Dit is jaggewere wat gebou is by die Mauser fabriek by Oberndorf am Necker (die dorp Oberndorf aan die Neckar rivier), Duitsland, vir die kommersieele mark (nie-militer), vanaf 1898 tot 1946. Ongeveer 127 000 is gebou, wat wereldwyd uitgevoer is. 'n Goeie klomp het in suidelike Afrika beland. Dit is 'n baie gesogte versameltema, plaaslik maar ook in die buiteland. Die gewere het later vir my te duur geword. Toe ek die gewere verkoop het, was dit duidelik dat dit 'n goeie belegging was.

Hier is 'n voorbeeld van een uit my gewese versameling, 'n A tipe 250-3000 (.250 Savage) op die Kurz (kort) M98 aksie:

                    [img width=338 height=480]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll49/JoeJVR/J-July08-1.jpg[/img]

Die geweer se pedigree:

TYPE A IN .250 - 3000 CALIBER, SQUARE BRIDGE KURZ (K) ACTION

Manufactured in 1932, this rifle is in excellent original condition. This elegant light rifle is equipped with the special order slide safety. K- action Mauser sporters were not manufactured in large numbers, and are quite rare. Jon Speed estimates in his latest book, ?The Mauser Archive?, 2007, that approximately 3500 to 5000 K-action rifles and carbines were manufactured.

Publications:

1. The rifle appeared on the cover of the June / July 2008 edition of African Outfitter magazine.
2. The rifle is listed by its serial number in the book ?Mauser: Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles? by Jon Speed, Walter Schmid and Reiner Herrman, Collector Grade Publications, 1997.
3. A photo of the rifle?s action, showing the ?Rare Mauser Side Safety? appears on page 52 of ManMagnum Magazine, June 1997 edition, as part of the article ?Mauser Treasure Trove Unveiled? by Gregor Woods.

Bostaande beskrywing kom uit die dokument wat ek opgestel het toe ek die versameling begin verkoop het  :'( :'( :'(

Tans versamel ek Brno's: Model 21 & 22 (Lepelslot gewere), ZG 47's en ZKK's.

Groete
Joe

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Last edited by JoevR on Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:43 am 
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sjoe, ek sien hier is manne wat die versameling gogga ernstig opneem. ek neem die vrymoedigheid om julle wat reeds versamelaars is te vra om ons bietjie meer te vertel oor versameling en spesifiek hoe n mens te werk moet gaan om wetlik korrek n wapenversamelaar te word.

ek verstaan jy moet n kategorie kies jy moet aan klub behoort. ek glo daar is nog vele meer, ek sal graag meer wil weet.

danki

James Wilson

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:58 pm 
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James, die eerste stap om 'n versamelaar i.t.v. die "Firearms Control Act (FCA)" te word, is om by 'n geakkrediteerde versamelvereeniging aan te sluit. Dan moet jy 'n versameltema of versameltemas motiveer, wat deur die vereeniging goedgekeur moet word. Daarna kan jy aansoeke by die SAPS indien vir geweerlisensies vir versameldoeleindes. Die kategoriee van versamel is: Kategorie C: gewone vuurwapens, Kategorie B: semi-outomatiese vuurwapens en Kategorie A: automatiese vuurwapens.

Die volgende info het ek laasweek van SAAACA ontvang:

Dear Members ,

Despite a number of communiques on the subject , we still find a large variance in the quality and scope of Applications for Collectability for New Firearms which are received in the SAAACA Office . As the situation with the approval of new licences improves, and more and more of our members are now seeing fit to add to their collections , it may be appropriate to recap on the requirements and purpose of this document .

It was designed to address , but not exceed , all the requirements in the FCA for the approval by the Association of firearms for collection . We need to bear in mind that the requirements for Collectors Associations are different from those for Sports Shooting and Hunting , in that the Association is required to approve the firearm . This is set out in Section 17(1)(a) of the Act -

17.  (1)  (a)  A firearm which may be possessed in a private collection is any firearm approved for collection by an accredited collector?s association, based upon such historical, technological, scientific, educational, cultural, commemorative, investment, rarity, thematic or artistic value determined by the association.

So this requires some work ? both by the Member and by the Executive Committee ? to arrive at such an approval , but the good news is that once prepared and signed off it also constitutes the ?motivation? as required in the SAPS 271(g) .

What many of our Members maybe don?t appreciate however is that each application needs to ?stand on its own two feet? , and has to contain enough detail and information to demonstrate that both at the time of initial approval , as well as in the event of a subsequent challenge, the application was fully motivated , considered and approved as complying with all requirements .

We have succeeded in removing most of the subjectivity in the assessment of the collectability of the firearm , by getting the essence of UK, Australian , and Canadian collectors legislation included in our Act , and in our experience over the last 5 years there is virtually no Member aspiration that cannot be accommodated in the collectability attributes in the Act viz. historical, technological, scientific, heritage, educational, cultural, commemorative, investment, rarity, thematic  or  artistic value .

A further key issue is that the collectability of a firearm is determined primarily by the Member?s knowledge and interest in that firearm ? the very same Boer Mauser rifle might be collected by one member for its association with a famous person or event , and by another member as an example of the Mauser 93/95 bolt action . Each application therefore needs to be prepared by the member based on only those attributes which are informed by his or her knowledge and Interest , and approved collecting Theme .

The question then arises as to ?how much is enough ? in terms of motivation detail ?

Typically this will amount to two or so typed pages for a Category C firearm , and somewhat more for Category B and A firearms .

If the firearm is of particular interest , or is scarce , then we find that many members have found  it useful and interesting to document considerably more material as a referenced  history of that firearm in that collection which can stand the test of time for future generations when the firearm is passed on . The key however is that there needs to be sufficient information to demonstrate the collectability of that firearm in that member?s context . and this is alluded to in Regulation 5 i.e.

?:5(a)  (the Association) has a dedicated procedure in place to evaluate its  members for their bona fides to be a private collector in a particular category in respect of their interest in, and knowledge of, the historical, technological, scientific, heritage, educational, cultural, commemorative, investment, rarity, thematic  or  artistic value of the firearms and ammunition in a specific field of interest or theme or both  and that the relevant documentation pertaining to such evaluation is kept on record by the association.?

Courtesy of the computer age , it is normally easy to re-use appropriate parts of a motivation (once developed) for future applications , and the more you do the easier it gets , but please ensure that sources of material are acknowledged ? be it the Member?s own or other research , or quotes from reference material .

If in doubt , we urge members to discuss particular requirements with the Executive Committee or other Committee members or experienced members in a particular area for advice .

What we don?t want to see is statements like ? The history of the K98 Mauser is well known and therefore I will not repeat it here etc ? !

Yes we would in fact ?like to see it repeated here?  please , particularly tailored in the context of the Member?s specific interest J .

Best regards and happy collecting ,

Carvel Webb (Chairman) ?

Groete
Joe

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:10 am 
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Dankie Joe, watter versamelaars liggaam sal jy aanbeveel? 

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:56 pm 
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James, aangesien ek lid is by SAAACA, http://www.saaaca.org.za/ sedert 2005 sonder klagtes, sal ek SAAACA aanbeveel. Ek dink die Pretoria Versamelvereeniging doen ook goeie werk vir sy lede, ek ken 'n paar manne wat lid is by hulle. Die belangrikste is dat die vereeniging ge-akkrediteer moet wees i.t.v. die Wet. Dan seker hoe nader aan waar jy bly, hoe beter.

Groete
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6,5 x 58, 7 x 57 (x5), 8 x 57JS, 8 x 60J, 8 x 60JS, 8 x 68S, 9 x 57, 10,75 x 68, 25-06, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 375 H&H Mag, 12 Gauge (x2), 22 LR (x5) 6,35 (x7) .38 Spec., .380, 9 mm P, .44 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Joe is die  SAAACA,  verteenwoordig regoor die land?

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Antonie wrote:
Weet nou nie of julle net van wapens hier praat nie maar ek versamel munte.

Spesifiek ZAR en Mandela reeks munte.


Antonie ek doen ook soos jy. Het wel n paar wat ek van die hand wil sit.

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:30 am 
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PM my jou besonderhede Katvis, miskien het jy munte waarin ek belang sou stel.


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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:34 am 
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Piet-Skiet wrote:
Joe as ek mag vra hoe skaars is die lepel grendel brnos en wats hulle waarde?


Piet-Skiet, volgens "Blue Book of Gun Values, 17th Edition, S.P. Fjestad, 1996, p.247" is ongeveer 40 000 Model 21 Brno's (lepelslot met gewone kolf) en Model 22 Brno's (lepelslot met volkolf) vervaardig, moontlik 'n klein hoeveelheid voor WWII maar meeste tussen 1946 - 1955. 40 000 is maar 'n kleinerige totale vervaardiging. Heelwat van die gewere is deur handelaars in Suid-Afrika ingevoer. Die gewere is skaars i.t.v. die Vuurwapenwet vir versameldoeleindes, d.w.s. die aantal gewere vervaardig is bekend en vervaardiging is 57 jaar terug gestaak.

My opinie t.o.v. waarde is R 7 500 - R 12 000, afhangende van toestand en variasie: eerste modelle was ronde ring M98 aksies, latere modelle dubbel vierkantbrug M98 met "dovetails" vir teleskoopmontering, kort loop (20.5") en lang loop (23.6"). Die volkolf gewere word in my opinie minder gereeld gesien.

Groete
Joe     

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:20 am 
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JoevR
Jou waar het jy die boek gekoop
Dankie
Beretta


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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:19 pm 
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Hi

Ek het onlangs die nuuste uitgawe(33) van die boek gekoop van 'n internet webwerf:
http://www.takealot.com/books/crafts-ho ... k,11003716
Die nuwe uitgawe het nou 2234 bladsye en in my geval was dit binne 10 dae by my huis afgelewer.


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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:02 am 
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Beretta, die boek is te koop by Zimby Books: http://www.zimbibooks.com/comersus/stor ... dCategory=

Dit is maar 'n duur boek as jy die jongste uitgawes koop, maar 'n boek wat elke versamelaar behoort te besit. Daar is baie waardevolle info in die boek. Die waardes wat gegee word in die boek is in $ vir Amerikaanse mark. Hierdie waardes kan in my opinie nie net volgens die jongste wisselkoers na Rand omgeskakel word nie. Bv. die Amerikaners versamel hul "heritage", d.w.s. Winchester "lever-actions", Colt rewolwers en Winchester "Pre '64" gewere, die vraag in die US na hierdie wapens is baie hoog en dus die waardes in die "Blue Book" ook. Die vraag na bv. lepelslot Brno's in die US is laer en dus die waarde in die "Blue Book" ook.

Ouer uitgawes van die "Blue Book" kan soms spotgoedkoop opgetel word as jy uitkyk daarvoor en bietjie geluk aan jou kant het. Ek het die 17 de uitgawe onlangs by Classic arms gekoop vir R 20.

Groete
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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:24 am 
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Joe
Dankie sal gaan kyk daar hou van boeke
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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:41 am 
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Ek sien by Takealot vra hulle R448 met koerier gelde ingesluit vir die heel nuutste 33 uitgawe terwyl Zimbi R495 vra vir die 30 ste uitgawe en dan moet posgeld nog bykom.


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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Forum Vriende

Weet van versameling, 12 plus Mauser .22 s, wat dalk in die mark is
As iemand belang stel kan ek kontak besonderhede aangee.

Self het ek net een maar versamel ander wapens
Spesifiek P 14  303 Br en ander
Mooi loop
Frik

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Dag almal;

Ek is nou net oor die 2 jaar lid by die PAAA hier in Pretoria en dis n baie lekker en aangename groep manne en het al aan hul wapenkunde aande meegedoen asook gaan skiet en dit was baie lekker. Ek versamel alle Mausers maar wat spesifiek in Duitsland vervaardig is en dan ook Duits vervaardigde Pistole.

Tans het ek op my versmaling die Broomhandle Mauser met alle nommers wat pas; n .22LR "mini 98". Op aansoek wag ek vir n P - 38; PPK; en Mauser Tashenpistole (Ex Joe van Rensburg) My handelaar het my ook n .22 "Luger" - selfde aksie maar anders binne gegee wat deur Erma gemaak is.

Die enigste "problem" is dat die Sentrale Vuurwapen Register nie altyd die verskil tussen "versamel en Seksie 15 wapens" kan of wil verstaan nie en my seksie 15 Howa .223 is afgekeur en het nou heraansoek gedoen en hoop die aansoek word gelees want dis n uiterste frustrasie.

Bly om julle to ontmoet en baie dankie

MJ


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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:32 am 
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JoevR wrote:
Piet-Skiet wrote:
Joe as ek mag vra hoe skaars is die lepel grendel brnos en wats hulle waarde?


Piet-Skiet, volgens "Blue Book of Gun Values, 17th Edition, S.P. Fjestad, 1996, p.247" is ongeveer 40 000 Model 21 Brno's (lepelslot met gewone kolf) en Model 22 Brno's (lepelslot met volkolf) vervaardig, moontlik 'n klein hoeveelheid voor WWII maar meeste tussen 1946 - 1955. 40 000 is maar 'n kleinerige totale vervaardiging. Heelwat van die gewere is deur handelaars in Suid-Afrika ingevoer. Die gewere is skaars i.t.v. die Vuurwapenwet vir versameldoeleindes, d.w.s. die aantal gewere vervaardig is bekend en vervaardiging is 57 jaar terug gestaak.

My opinie t.o.v. waarde is R 7 500 - R 12 000, afhangende van toestand en variasie: eerste modelle was ronde ring M98 aksies, latere modelle dubbel vierkantbrug M98 met "dovetails" vir teleskoopmontering, kort loop (20.5") en lang loop (23.6"). Die volkolf gewere word in my opinie minder gereeld gesien.

Groete
Joe     


Môre Joe,

Bitter lekker versameling wat jy daar doenig het. Weet jy of van die eerste Model 21's met 18" lope uitgekom het? Ek het onlangs n klein 7x57 bekom wat nog die ronde ring aksie het ( voel te sleg om te boor en tap aan hom) en sovêr ek kan meet lyk die loop 18". Hy het sy oorspronklikke vesier en korrel op wat bo oor die loop vas is, so ek twyfel of hy verkort is.

Groete,
Dewald

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Dewald

Savuti Arms het n ruk terug n model 21 in 8x57 gehad met n 20" loop. Hy het reeds n baas gekry.


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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:51 pm 
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Hi ek wil graag by die groot manne (versamelaars) en ander slim manne hoor,ek het vandag n unieke .22 gesien 'n BSA lyk my hy knak ook dan het hy n lever onder ook, verder is die eerste deel van die loop 6 kantig verder is die loop rond.
Sal graag foto wou laai maar weet nie mooi hoe.

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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Moeilik om te sE maar dit klink na n "rook& rabbit" rifle soos wat die ingelse dit gedoop het. Ek het egter nog nooit een deur BSA gesien nie.

Ander waarskylikheid is dat dit n "poachers' rifle" is. BSA het heelwat van hulle gemaak, maar al die wat ek gesien het, het nie 8-kantige lope gehad nie.

Waar in die N-kaap bevind jy jouself? Ek is in Kathu. Sal goed wees om te sien.

Groete


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 Post subject: Re: Wat word versamel?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Hi ek is in Postmasburg, ja interesante outjie wat ook snaaks is, is dat hy net stukkie kolf het verder is hy heel metal, het nog nie die geweer maar sodra ek hom het sal ek hom vir jou gaan wys.

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