300PRC and QuickLOAD / GRT

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DirkR
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300PRC and QuickLOAD / GRT

Post by DirkR »

Good morning everyone,

I’ve been doing load development on my .300 PRC over the past three to four months. In the end I arrived at a load that works fairly well, but only after going a bit old-school and shooting ladders all the way up to Hodgdon’s published maximums.

I’m currently shooting the Hornady 225gr ELD-M out to 1 km, but I’m keen to also try the Bergers (230gr, 220gr, and 215gr - most likely the 230 if everything else is equal). I’m also tempted to develop a load for the Barnes 208gr LRX. Although this is not primarily a hunting rifle, the more I shoot it the more I find myself tempted to setup on a hill and wait for a kudu to appear somewhere at distance.

I’ve used both QuickLOAD and GRT quite a bit for my .375 H&H, and in that cartridge they have been reasonably accurate. On the .300 PRC, however, I’ve found the predicted velocities with H1000 and Retumbo to be quite far off from what I’m actually seeing on the Labradar / Garmin. Before I just ask for advice on specific powders and starting loads for the Berger and Barnes bullets, I’d like to ask for help to understand why QuickLOAD is so far out in this case.

I’m running QuickLOAD 3.9 with the latest database update purchased in December.

Here’s the rifle and case data:

Rifle: Howa .300 PRC
Barrel: 26"
Suppressor: Yes
Twist: 1:8.5
Brass: Lapua
Trimmed length: 65.18 mm
Case capacity: 97.0 gr H2O (average of five fire-formed cases)

Current load:

Bullet: Hornady 225gr ELDM
COAL: 93.5mm
Jump: 1.3mm
Propellant: 78.7gr Retumbo
Primer: Federal 215M
Speed: 2863fps (Measured with the Garmin across 42 shots. Labradar LX said 2837fps, but I only used it for 4 shots and it measured my 78.5gr at 2839fps also across 4 shots - so I think the 2837 is too low).
SD: 10fps across 42 shots when using the Garmin.

When I enter this data into QuickLOAD, it predicts a muzzle velocity of 2683 fps for this load, which is about 180 fps lower than what I’m actually seeing. On my .375 H&H, QuickLOAD’s predictions have always been much closer to reality than this, so this difference worries me a bit.

My first question is whether it is reasonable to apply such a large powder burn-rate or energy calibration to Retumbo in QuickLOAD to make it line up with measured velocity? My follow-up question is whether, after doing that, it is still sensible to use the calibrated model to look for nodes and develop loads for other bullets when using Retumbo?

And then as a third question to sneak in here :D I did a test with CCI 250 primers and measured across 4 shots it seems like I'm losing around 50fps. I know the Federal primers are said to be "warmer", but most people I asked said that I wouldn't really see a difference between the two. So I am wondering what the experts here say about Federal vs CCI for this cartridge?

PS I am no longer shooting the H1000 because I ran out during load development and couldn't find more of it at the time. But I saw similar big discrepancies between what QuickLOAD (and GRT) predicted vs reality.
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Capt. Yoda
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Re: 300PRC and QuickLOAD / GRT

Post by Capt. Yoda »

Federal 215s are very hot primers so they are probably "upping" the burn rate of the powder a bit to, just adjust the speed in QL and go from there
You saw with your own eyes that they are warmer then 250s and we all know that

Worst case shoot a couple shots over the corny without your suppressor and see if there is a difference in speed, some people have reported seeing a increase in velocity when adding some suppressors brands

If I load your default values into my GRT with a blank 300ORC file to start the default speed comes in at 2730fps, maybe your batch of powder is a little faster, your barrel might be a little faster then the one they used for the profile in GRT or maybe its your suppresser or the Federal primers, might be a combination of all of it
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
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tripodmvr
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Re: 300PRC and QuickLOAD / GRT

Post by tripodmvr »

Volgens bostaande inligting gee QL 'n druk van 65K psi (maksimum druk) en dat die lading prakties op Node 5 is. Ek het wel al vroeër sulke ladings kalibreer wat groot aanpassing van die BRF vereis. Beraamde ladings wat daarvolgens bereken is het goed presteer. Jou geweer se loop kan effe onder maat wees en daarom die hoër druk en spoed.

Jy het prakties gesien dat die Federal slagdoppe baie warmer as die CCI 250 is. Jy moet besluit watter jy gaan gebruik. Die CCI 250's sal maak dat jou dop voller gaan wees en dit is baie keer 'n goeie ding. Jy sal daarmee moet eksperimenteer.

QL nodes met huidige opset. Soos Capt. Yoda genoem het sal die skiet sonder die knaldemper die spoed kan affekteer en die nodes effe aangepas moet word.

Node 5 78,5gr = 2857vps
Node 5 1/2 77,2gr = 2788vps
Node 6 75gr = 2752vps
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DirkR
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Re: 300PRC and QuickLOAD / GRT

Post by DirkR »

Dankie julle. Ek waardeer die hulp!

Ek gaan nou verder met die CCI primers moet eksperimenteer, want ek is uit die Federals uit en dit lyk my al die winkels is ook uit hulle uit :D

Van my primers maak klein kratertjies op 78.7gr, maar my slot maak nog maklik oop en ek sien nie ander tekens van druk nie. Nietemin dink ek dit is 'n goeie idee om vir Node 5.5 te mik met CCI primers. Met my ladders was daar 'n goeie groep by 77.6gr ook. Toe maak dit bietjie oop op 77.9gr en 78.2gr en weer toe op 78.5gr met die beste groep op 78.7gr. Ek het 'n 79.0gr ook geskiet, maar toe het die groep weer bietjie oop gemaak en die slot het met een van die skote bietjie moeilik oop gemaak ook.

Dit pla so bietjie dat die dop effens leeg is, maar ek kry nie 'n lekker kombinasie van poeier en punte wat my 'n vol dop gee nie. Dalk Berger 230gr Hybrid Target met N570 of N568? Ek kan nou weer terug gaan na H1000 ook, want mens kan dit weer in die hande kry. Die 225ELDM skiet redelik mooi, maar ek juk so bietjie om die Bergers te probeer. Ek lees goeie goed oor die 215 Berger uit die 300PRC, maar ek sal die swaarder punte verkies as die somme werk. Selfs dalk die 245gr.

As mens so bietjie vertroue in QL (of my gebruik van QL) verloor dan raak dit moeilik om te besluit wat kan werk, so ek waardeer julle manne se hulp!
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