SAGA:URGENT NEWSFLASH TO ALL GUNOWNERS IN THE WESTERN CAPE

[scheffere]

Ek het hierdie nou net ontvang.


For immediate release – April 11 2017
Contact: Jonathan Deal 023-358-9903 | WhatsApp to 076-838-5150 | jdeal@saga.org.za
__________________________________________

URGENT NEWSFLASH TO ALL GUNOWNERS IN THE WESTERN CAPE

SAGA has been advised that SAPS in the Western Cape will be conducting an operation aimed at gunowners who have failed, for whatever reason, to timeously renew their licences in respect of specific guns. It appears that SAPS teams will be conducting ‘raids’ on targeted individuals mostly at their residences with a view to confiscating guns and ammunition. SAGA cannot at this stage speculate as to what SAPS intends to achieve by this action, nor what other steps may be taken by SAPS at the time of such visit.

In the interim all lawful gun owners are advised that:

1. If you are in possession of the old green licence, that licence is still valid in terms of an Order of the High Court – a copy of this order is available from SAGA.

2. If SAPS personnel or anyone under their command, after correctly identifying themselves, and providing some form of warrant or authorization insists on taking possession of your gun, you are advised to cooperate with them while pointing out that a green licence is valid at this date. Moreover, with respect to the validity of expired White Licences you may point out that within weeks of this date various high profile court actions are due to be heard. SAGA legal counsel believes the so-called raids and any confiscation of guns as a result thereof is possibly breaching the Firearms Control Act and other laws.

3. SAGA is considering an urgent interdict to address this issue - It will, however not be helpful for a gun owner to refuse to cooperate with the police.

4. Before Signing any document presented to you by the police in this context contact SAGA (Damian Enslin – cell number 082 652 2150 or Jonathan Deal 023 358 9903 or whatsap to 076 838 5150.) A document that can be applied in the case of handing over a gun to SAPS for safekeeping – not surrender – is available from SAGA, and can be downloaded from the SAGA’s website.

5. This advice or assistance is offered to all gun owners who are free to contact SAGA.

[Jurgen Visser]

Ai ai ai , wat is die plan wat hulle eintlik het ?

[tripodmvr]

Om almal se Paasnaweek op te whatever.

[LRLaubscher]

Het nounet met ons DFO gepraat en hy het dit bevestig. Hulle het vanoggend vroeg al begin met dit. Dis net die wit kaartjies wat verval het.


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[Jean Marais]

'n Vraag?

Ek verstaan die beginsel dat die ou groen lisensie steeds geldig is in gevalle waar daar nog nooit aansoek gedoen is om dit in terme van die "nuwe" wet te hernu nie. As ek egter wel my ou groen lisensie in terme van die "nuwe" wet hernu het, en die nuwe wit lisensie verval, hoe kan ek my dan nou daarop beroep om steeds die oue te laat geld. Het die ou groen lisensie nie met die uitreiking van die nuwe wit lisensie verval/ongeldig geword nie?

[Biltong]

Goeie vraag. Ek luister.

[DawieKotze]

Het die ou groen lisensie nie met die uitreiking van die nuwe wit lisensie verval/ongeldig geword nie?

Dis hoe ek dit ook verstaan.

[LRLaubscher]

'n Vraag?

Ek verstaan die beginsel dat die ou groen lisensie steeds geldig is in gevalle waar daar nog nooit aansoek gedoen is om dit in terme van die "nuwe" wet te hernu nie. As ek egter wel my ou groen lisensie in terme van die "nuwe" wet hernu het, en die nuwe wit lisensie verval, hoe kan ek my dan nou daarop beroep om steeds die oue te laat geld. Het die ou groen lisensie nie met die uitreiking van die nuwe wit lisensie verval/ongeldig geword nie?

Toe jy jou nuwe wit lisensie gekry het, het jou ou groen een se geldiheid verval. Dit sal so op SAPS se stelsel ook wys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jean Marais]

2. If SAPS personnel or anyone under their command, after correctly identifying themselves, and providing some form of warrant or authorization insists on taking possession of your gun, you are advised to cooperate with them while pointing out that a green licence is valid at this date. Moreover, with respect to the validity of expired White Licences you may point out that within weeks of this date various high profile court actions are due to be heard. SAGA legal counsel believes the so-called raids and any confiscation of guns as a result thereof is possibly breaching the Firearms Control Act and other laws.

Ek stem met jou saam, want logies maak dit sin dat die ou groene sou verval het as die nuwe wit een uitgereik is. Hoe rym dit dan met die gedeelte wat ek in rooi gemerk het? In my opinie sal die SAPS 'n baie sterk saak hê as die wit lisensie verval het, en jy as wapeneienaar jou nou beroep op die geldigheid van die ou groen lisensie.

[Chevvy SS]

Natshoot

Dear Member,
Before the Dealers’ Urgent Court Application, we requested Adv van Eeden SC, to furnish us with his legal opinion on this issue. The full text of his opinion is reflected in Newsletter Vol. 12 (26) dated 11-04-2016. You can read that Newsletter by going to the following Natshoot web page - https://natshoot.co.za/nhsa-info/nhsa-newsletters

The legal opinion of Adv van Eeden SC is important as it reflects the verdict any court should logically come to if it should be asked the question on the continued validity of Green Licences even after one had applied for a so-called White Licence under the FCA for the same firearm.

The important conclusion Adv van Eeden (SC) comes to on this issue, is reflected in the last paragraph of his document, namely:

“If a licence issued in terms of the New Act has expired, (SC here refers to Act 60 of 2000) the owner of the firearm will remain in valid possession of that firearm if he or she has a green licence (SC here refers to licences under the Arms and Ammunition Act of 1969). Such owner will then have one valid licence, whereas he or she previously had two valid licences (the Green Licence for the specific firearm is thus still valid despite the White Licence for that firearm had expired).

The owner is under no lawful obligation to surrender such firearm, even if the renewal of a licence in terms of the New Act is refused because the renewal application was not made timeously. Such a refusal would, however, be foolhardy (SC here refers to the situation if SAPS would refuse the renewal of a White Licence for a firearm for which one also holds a valid Green Licence) and the owner should successfully defend any prosecution in respect of the possession of such a firearm”.

This thus means that if you are late with your renewal application for your so-called White Licence for a specific firearm, and you have a Green Licence for that same firearm, you are still legally in possession thereof. SAPS thus cannot take you to task for being in possession of an illegal firearm of which the White Licence had expired while you are still in possession of a Green Licence for that fierarm. You will be able to defend yourself successfully in any court case against you for purportedly being in possession of an ilegal firearm.

We thus, herewith, confirm the position we had informed you of, re this issue, in our Newsletter Vol. 12 (17) dated 10 March 2016, namely that our general legal advice has been that Green Licences are valid irrespective of the fact that one might have a White Licence for a specific firearm.

Before we had known the full extent of the Dealers’ urgent application, we had requested the legal opinion from Adv H van Eeden (SC) on the validity of the so-called Green Licences, as the SAPS Directive of 2 February 2016 clearly stated that once one had participated in the transitional period ordered by the FCA (Act 60 of 2000) in respect of a specific firearm, one could not claim that one’s previous Green Licence for that firearm was still valid.

This communication then also serves as a recall of our Newsletter Vol. 11 (27) dated 11 December 2015 stating that one could not claim validity of a Green Licences for a specific firearm after one had applied for a so-called White Licence under the FCA (Act 60 of 2000) for that same firearm.

Despite the above we once again urge our members to ASCERTAIN THAT YOU APPLY FOR RENEWAL OF FIREARM LICENCES 90 DAYS BEFORE THE EXPIRY DATE OF SUCH A LICENCE. Your firearms are after al your resposibility - take that responsibility seriously !!

We shall advise members on the outcomes of both comming court cases


Regards

Herman Els

[Jean Marais]

Dankie Chevvy. Ek dink dis duidelik genoeg gestel.

[scheffere]

Opvolg:

SAPS WESTERN CAPE GUN RAID HALTED

For immediate release – April 19, 2017
Contact: Jonathan Deal 023-358-9903 | WhatsApp to 076-838-5150 | jdeal@saga.org.za
__________________________________________

SAPS have confirmed to SAGA that the raids launched on April 11th have been halted. The operation, apparently aimed at gun owners only in the Western Cape and narrowly focused on the northern suburbs of Durbanville and Kraaifontein, saw multiple gun owners being strong-armed by SAPS to hand over guns with expired licences.

SAGA was reliably informed that in one instance 13 SAPS personnel attended one home. SAGA Board Member and Firearms Law specialist attorney, Damian Enslin said that he was perplexed at the action of SAPS, not only with regard to the likely disregard for the Firearms Control Act, Administrative Law and Constitutional Rights, but also because the very issue of expired licences is on the High Court role for later in April.

“SAGA suspects that this activity has been politically motivated and we are determined to get to the bottom of it. SAGA invites any gun owner who experienced a visit from SAPS in March or April in connection with this issue to contact us for assistance – whether a gun was confiscated or not. We believe that the action of SAPS in the Western Cape last week was legally actionable. Whilst SAGA has a long-established reputation of dealing respectfully and positively with the challenges surrounding firearm law, we are also not prepared to stand by and watch gun owners targeted unfairly and possibly illegally,” said Enslin.

SAGA emphasizes that as at this date lawful gun owners are advised that:

1. If you are in possession of the old green licence, that licence is still valid in terms of an Order of the High Court – a copy of this order is available from SAGA.

2. If SAPS personnel or anyone under their command, after correctly identifying themselves, and providing some form of warrant or authorization insists on taking possession of your gun, you are advised to cooperate with them while pointing out that a green licence is valid at this date. Moreover, with respect to the validity of expired White Licences you may point out that within weeks of this date various high profile court actions are due to be heard. SAGA legal counsel believes the so-called raids and any confiscation of guns as a result thereof is possibly breaching the Firearms Control Act and other laws.

3. SAGA is considering an urgent interdict to address this issue - It will, however not be helpful for a gun owner to refuse to cooperate with the police.

4. Before Signing any document presented to you by the police in this context contact SAGA (Damian Enslin – cell number 0826522150 or Jonathan Deal 023 358 9903 or whatsap to 076 838 5150.) A document that can be applied in the case of handing over a gun to SAPS for safekeeping – not surrender – is available from SAGA, and can be downloaded from SAGA’s website.

5. This advice or assistance is offered to all gun owners who are free to contact SAGA.


ENDS/

Further information is available from saga@saga.org.za or on 031-562-9951
If it is necessary to contact SAGA after hours in an urgent situation please contact our Media & Communications member on cell phone via WhatsApp to 076-838-5150 or jdeal@saga.org.za or 023 358 9903


Issued: Wednesday 19 April 2017 at 10:15

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Issued by: The SAGA Office tel +27 31 5629951 fax: +27 86 5539615
For Legal requirements our physical address is given - NOT for mail
Tandjo Centre, 4 Joseph Ave, Glen Anil, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa.

[vriell]

'n Vraag?

Ek verstaan die beginsel dat die ou groen lisensie steeds geldig is in gevalle waar daar nog nooit aansoek gedoen is om dit in terme van die "nuwe" wet te hernu nie. As ek egter wel my ou groen lisensie in terme van die "nuwe" wet hernu het, en die nuwe wit lisensie verval, hoe kan ek my dan nou daarop beroep om steeds die oue te laat geld. Het die ou groen lisensie nie met die uitreiking van die nuwe wit lisensie verval/ongeldig geword nie?

jy is reg Jean...en dit maak sin vir my...

[Viking]

'n Vraag?

Ek verstaan die beginsel dat die ou groen lisensie steeds geldig is in gevalle waar daar nog nooit aansoek gedoen is om dit in terme van die "nuwe" wet te hernu nie. As ek egter wel my ou groen lisensie in terme van die "nuwe" wet hernu het, en die nuwe wit lisensie verval, hoe kan ek my dan nou daarop beroep om steeds die oue te laat geld. Het die ou groen lisensie nie met die uitreiking van die nuwe wit lisensie verval/ongeldig geword nie?

jy is reg Jean...en dit maak sin vir my...

Martin Hood aanhaling-

"As a result of Judge Prinsloo ruling that the green licences remain valid, the police should have stopped the re-licensing process for two reasons. Number one, the judge said that the old licences are valid. And number two, it would have stopped the administrative chaos that they have created. They wasted massive amounts of money, massive amounts of State resources and they have been subjected to a substantive amount of litigation."

"The SAPS intended to terminate the validity of the old (green card) licences on 30 June 2009. This step would have criminalized some members of SA Hunters and some legal gun-owners because SAPS was unable to issue them with new licences before the 30 June 2009 deadline. The court ruled in favour of SA Hunters in the urgent application with an interim order that firearm licences issued under previous legislation would remain valid pending the outcome of a final hearing of the main application. However, SA Hunters’ main application on the unconstitutionality of Schedule 1 has not been heard yet."