22 Creedmoor Load Help

[BunduRic]

Hi all,

I need some help with getting a load for my 22 Creedmoor that I can start refining,

Currently I am around 120 rounds into trying to get a load with no success in terms of what I would see as a reasonable group to work with.

Rifle specs,
Kelby Atlas Tactical Action
Eagle Barrel 18" with a 1/7.5 twist

Used Hodgdon H4350 with Cci BR SRP primers in Petersen brass and ELD M 75gr bullets.

I have tried start 0.020" of the lands, with increments of 0.030 and get no consistency.

So I am not looking to the forum for some help as to what bullet, powder, load, etc to try.

I have ELD-M 75gr, ELD-M 80gr and Berger Hybrid 85.5gr and have Hodgdon H4350, Vihtavouri N560 and Hodgdon Varget, but willing to get anything else to get this rifle to group properly.

[Lategan1]

Is your 0.03 increments/0.762mm correct?

If so, you most likely missing your nodes. Should be somewhere between ,005 to .008” with 22Creed.

The QL chaps will hopefully help with the optimal powders etc.

Beste.

[tripodmvr]

Adjusting both COL and charge weights will get you nowhere. Load Col at -0,025 (1mm) from the lands. Give the following info:-
1. Measured barrel length to cocked bolt
2. Measure water volume of a fired case that has not been resized.
3. Give COL from base of case to tip of bullet
4. Charge weight shot + speed achieved and which chrony used

With that we should get the charges sorted. Then you can change the COL if needed.

[BunduRic]

Is your 0.03 increments/0.762mm correct?

If so, you most likely missing your nodes. Should be somewhere between ,005 to .008” with 22Creed.

The QL chaps will hopefully help with the optimal powders etc.

Beste.

Apologies let me correct some of my statements, I work in inches,

The jam on the rifle was measured at 2.705", I then started with the 1st load 0.002" of and then after that in increments of 0.003" all the way down to 2 increments below the OAL of 2.640"

[BunduRic]

Adjusting both COL and charge weights will get you nowhere. Load Col at -0,025 (1mm) from the lands. Give the following info:-
1. Measured barrel length to cocked bolt
2. Measure water volume of a fired case that has not been resized.
3. Give COL from base of case to tip of bullet
4. Charge weight shot + speed achieved and which chrony used

With that we should get the charges sorted. Then you can change the COL if needed.

Will do,

[BunduRic]

Just in terms of the twist of 7.5, should I rather focus on 80g and 85gr bullets and not worry about the 75gr?

Berger Stability calculator showed the 75gr being more stable than the 80gr and 85g but it seems more people reckon that is to light for the twist?

1. Measured barrel length to cocked bolt - 46cm or 18.11"
2. Measure water volume of a fired case that has not been resized. - 50.7gr
3. Give COL from base of case to tip of bullet - 2.640"
75gr ELD-M, Hodgdon H4350 - 40gr load
Avg 2968 (STD dev 14,6 and spread 39,4)

75gr ELD-M, Hodgdon H4350 - 39.5gr load
Avg 2904 (STD dev 17,4 and spread 43,14)


4. Charge weight shot + speed achieved and which chrony used - The above was with my Garmin Xero C1

I have Hodgdon H4350, Hodgdon Varget, Vihtavouri N560 for powder but willing to get any powder
I have Hornady ELD M 75 and 80gr and Berger 85.5gr bullets but willing to get any other bullet

Some of the images of the different seating depth and then charge weights.

The image with no writing on in, the bottom 2 from the right was 80grs and the rest was the 75grs.

[BunduRic]

Ok this confused me even more, everyone says the 7 or 7.5 twist is for heavier bullets, yet as per the Berger Stability calculator it shows lighter bullets having a better stability SG.

[Apie]

Try the Bergers 85.5 with the N560

The 75gr EldM either works perfectly or doesn’t at all.

If your rifle doesn’t like them it will never be consistent.

Test the Bergers or 80gr Eld


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[Lategan1]

These pictures presents primarily horizontal, diagonal @ vertical groups. This is a typical indication of most likely still short on powder.

First sort out your optimal load & grouping with the data as Tripod requested. Bullet of choice I will firstly do as Apie indicated and then go back to the more marginal/temperamental bullets after successfully completed your starting choice.

[] It is important to get confidence in your system and yourself before you exploit all other choices. You already 120 rounds down the pipe. That includes “how to” by self education and not following others. Each system is unique.

If you have not done a reloading course, best advice I got, consider.

Beste.

[tripodmvr]

https://petersoncartridge.com/blog/22-c ... -load-data

How far is your COL of 2.64 off the lands?

All charges with H4350 and 75ELDM
Try 38,7gr for a speed of 2935fps. Node 6 and pressure 52K psi
41,5gr and 3080fps Pressure 60K psi. If you want to try this, then creep up to it as from 40,9gr

[Gian_dP]

Ok this confused me even more, everyone says the 7 or 7.5 twist is for heavier bullets, yet as per the Berger Stability calculator it shows lighter bullets having a better stability SG.

Stability refers to the bullet spinning around its length axis. Lighter bullets are (generally) shorter and can be shot faster, so spin faster, more stable. Bryan Litz has shown that we can't overstabilise bullets. Very fast rotational forces can strip the jacket of the core-bullets disintegrating in flight.

Longer bullets are more likely to "wobble" at slower speeds and lower rpm(think spinning top as it looses speed-sways first, then wobbles, then falls over)

Bullets are either stable in flight(SG more than 1.5) marginally stable(SG 1-1.5, not tumbling, but more aerodynamic drag i.e. lower bc) or unstable(SG below 1, tumbling through the air, "keyhole" in target.

Practically, a 55gr bullets from a 1 in 14 twist will be stable, but a 75gr bullet will tumble from same barrel.

75gr bullet from 1 in 9 barrel could be stable, marginally stable or unstable-depending on muzzle velocity and especially altitude. Few people have been caught out-load that works well in Gauteng becomes unstable at sea level.

1 in 7 twist barrel should stabilise basically any .224 bullet under most conditions.

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[BunduRic]

The jam / lands is 2.705

Yes all of those were with H4350 correct.

https://petersoncartridge.com/blog/22-c ... -load-data

How far is your COL of 2.64 off the lands?

All charges with H4350 and 75ELDM
Try 38,7gr for a speed of 2935fps. Node 6 and pressure 52K psi
41,5gr and 3080fps Pressure 60K psi. If you want to try this, then creep up to it as from 40,9gr

[BunduRic]

This is all Berger 85.5grs, tomorrow will be testing some Berger 70grs to see if there is any group improvement and consistency.

I have never struggled this much with any gun to get some consistency.

[Capt. Yoda]

Daar is iets anders as n lading met daai geweer wat nie lekker is nie. Is this rifle in a chassis?

[tripodmvr]

What speeds were you getting? I also think that there might be some other factor influencing your shots. What scope are you using? Have you torqued all the screws and bolts?

[BunduRic]

Let me answer all the questions,
1. Rilfe is in a chassis, MDT Oryx
2. Speeds varies as I played around now with 4 powders and 4 different bullet weights so anything from 2900 - 3400fps
3. I had my Apex Rival X on it, then thought maybe my scope took a know, then put one of my Element Titan on it, same story.

The attached images were all 70gr Bergers with Superperformance, N560 and H1000 powder.

[Arnold]

What does GRT or QL say about powder burn in that short 18" barrel?

I would use this to guide me on powder selection. Then for bullet selection I would go heavy, like the 85.5gr, because this will help with powder burn of the slower powders.

Loading to the highest node you can safely do would also help with powder burn.

If everything else on the rifle is properly fastened and you have tried shooting without a muzzle device, then I would say it could be a bad barrel.

Also, confirm your barrel twist, if your twist is slower that would result in groups that just does not want to shrink because of marginal stability ... this you often see on the 8 twist 223. Your speeds are in this region ...

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[BunduRic]

Dont have GRT or QL, so no idea what the powder burn would be.

Barrel Twist is 1 7.5

Below is this morning where I looked at the Superperformance and N560 again.

With the Superperformance almost feels like there is a delay on the shot on trigger pul, STD Dev is crazy on Superperformance but so far the one load is getting the best group.

Can I gun be that finicky on powder and specific load?

I am now 300 rounds into this gun.

[Lategan1]

Sjoe.

I suspect mechanical - chamber concentric, lead etc. I would start with proper chamber cast to confirm everything in place before you regard the barrel as a dudd. You nowhere close to constant 1 MOA, and you should be much less by now.

Read the following from an expert to assist you on the way forward.

I also trust from the groups on these photo’s you have not adjusted scope POI. It seems that groups with similar loads to oscillate. Place it on top of one another to have a proper perspective.

Beste.

https://bellmtcs.com/chambercastlibrary

[Jaco Bezuidenhout]

If i may ask what barrel make and who build the gun for you ?

[BunduRic]

No scope adjustment,

All groups were shot, barrel cooler run for 5-7 mins to keep everything between shot groups consistent.

Sjoe.

I suspect mechanical - chamber concentric, lead etc. I would start with proper chamber cast to confirm everything in place before you regard the barrel as a dudd. You nowhere close to constant 1 MOA, and you should be much less by now.

Read the following from an expert to assist you on the way forward.

I also trust from the groups on these photo’s you have not adjusted scope POI. It seems that groups with similar loads seems to oscillate. Place it on top of one another to have a proper perspective.

Beste.

https://bellmtcs.com/chambercastlibrary

[BunduRic]

Eagle Barrel and then Frans or Eagle Barrels did the barrel and assembly for me.

If i may ask what barrel make and who build the gun for you ?

[Gian_dP]

300 rounds is a lot of money on components and barrel life that is gone, with pretty much nothing to show for it. I would take it to a gunsmith to go over and see if there are any problems.



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[Arnold]

Did you measure the barrel twist?

I had a quick look at GRT and you have a lot of unburnt powder because of the short barrel. This is also why you have such erratic speed measurements.
I would try the 85.5gr Berger with S365 and work up to 2950fps, the 70gr should give around 3100fps

[BunduRic]

Barrel twist is 7.5

Thanks, let me try that as I am at my wits end.

Did you measure the barrel twist?

I had a quick look at GRT and you have a lot of unburnt powder because of the short barrel. This is also why you have such erratic speed measurements.
I would try the 85.5gr Berger with S365 and work up to 2950fps, the 70gr should give around 3100fps