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Ek kon toe met die Lapua doppe gaan skiet. Dopvolume is effe minder as die Norma so ek het so klein bietjie minder poeier gegooi. Gemiddelde spoed was 3204 fps.
Die blokkie is 1 MOA en hierdie is 15 skote almal met verskillende seating dieptes
Iets wat ek nog opgemerk het is dat hoe verder ek van die lande af gelaai het hoe meer konstant was die spoed. Hopeloos te min data om te bevestig maar ek het al gesien dat seating diepte ES beinvloed.
Hierdie ongedateerde erkenning en riglyn moet elkeen lees, al is dit VLD. Die klem op die TPL nodeband ipv posisie naby die groewe, o.a.
Geno se metode strook ook deels hiermee.
Ek dit al meermale gelees.
Beste.
Komplimente van Berger.
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle
Background
VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).
For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won’t shoot in their rifle.
Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.
Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.
Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.
After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying “this is the best my rifle has ever shot.”
We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.
Solution
The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.
Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.
Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).
Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).
Iets baie interessant, maar dit kan ook ek wees wat iets lees waar daar niks is. Hierdie 2 skoot groepie teikens is die skote op die verskillende teikens 18 thou uitmekaar ... baie periodies
Sien hom ook so. Jou onderste 2 teikens, nou moet jy kies waar jy wil begin met .002 intervalle binne die .018 sprong wat jy het.
“Solution
The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.
reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field“
My keuse sou fokus op middelste teiken, selfde POI as 3.
Begin laai .002 korter, dan langer @ .002” intervalle.
@Lategan1 ek het dit nou nie eksplisiet genoem nie maar hierdie skote was deel van die 15 skote wat ek reeds geskiet het, almal 3 thou uitmekaar. Dit is hoe ek bepaal het dat die groepe ongeveer 18 thou uitmekaar is.
My volgende stappe gaan nou wees om die lading aan te pas sodat hy op OBT kom volgens QL. Vanaf 44.5gr S365 (3200 fps) tot 44.9gr (3230fps). Terloops, ek sien geen druk by 44.5gr so voel gemaklik met die aanpassing.
Met die lading van 44.9gr gaan ek dan drie groepe skiet. Elke groep met die verskillende patroon lengtes soos in die boonste twee skoot prentjies.
Hierna mag ek dalk weer die lading effe verstel vir die beste seating diepte. Dan glo ek die 243 sal skiet tot sy vermoë.
Dan aal ek hom uit die AX AICS en sit ek hom terug in die GRS BiFrost om te sien of als dieselfde bly.
Wat vir my belangrik is, is een verandering op 'n slag om die effek te kan korreleer met die verandering.
Die geweertjie doen definitief beter verder van die lands af en ek is seker iemand anders sal dalk 'n beter groep kan skiet met hierdie lading. Ek het ander seating dieptes getoets en nader aan die lands was baie slegter. Verder was ok maar nie so goed nie.
44.9gr S365 lot 102 vir so 3230 fps
Ek weet nie presies hoe vêr ek van die lands is nie maar op my toetse is die 87gr Vmax 40 thou van my zero af.
Net vir die rekord: hierdie is met 'n standaard Rem700 VLS (26" loop) in 'n AX AICS met Atlas super cal bipod en 3% Tactical Crossbone sakkie van 'n bank af geskiet. Teleskoop was 'n Vortex Razor Gen2 met EBR-2C reticle
Arnold wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 2:40 pm
Ek sit nou hier en kyk na die chronograaf data en sien my ES is 50 fps. Hierdie is met 'n stel doppe van die vorige eienaar wat ek gekry het met Hornady doppe in gemeng by Norma ...
Daar is heel moontlik verskillende batches Norma doppe tussen die wat ek skiet. So ek gaan vars begin met Lapua doppe en sal dan my normale herlaai prosedure volg.
Met die nuwe 243 wat ek gekry wil ek toe gou bepaal hoe diep ek 'n 100gr PMP ProAmm koeel in die dop moet druk om by die krimpgroef te seat en hoe lank die patroon dan sal wees. Wel daar kom ek toe mooi agter dat van die doppe donuts het.
Dit verduidelik die druk, ES en swak groepe met die Norma doppe.
Koos Barnard wrote:Arnold, op die foto's van die groeperings sien ek die geweer gooi elke keer een skoot weg. Is dit sy algemene patroon of kon jy al mooi "ronde" groepe skiet?
Hallo Koos, hy is hier in die GRS Bifrost wat vir my nuut is. Voorheen in die chassis het hy ronde groepe geskiet met die ammo wat ek saam met die geweer gekry het.
Ek het nie baie aandag aan die groepe gegee nie maar sal oplet hierna as ek nou weer gaan skiet en my opstelling bietjie meer stabiel kry.
Gewoonlik skiet ek 5 skoot groepe om beter te sien wat aangaan. Nou dat ek weet waar die maksimum is sal ek bietjie groepe gaan skiet om te kyk wat hy maak.
Die geweer en lot dryfmiddel is nuut vir my so ek is nog versigtig vir hom
Arnold, sonder om alles weer deur te gaan, verwys jy na hierdie gesprek?
Indien, bevestig jou ervaring met hierdie doppe net weer dat ons baie keer donuts as herlaaiers geringskat. Al is dit net ‘n ligte graad van donuts.
Ek het ‘n nuwe Howa 243 22”, 1in10 twist. Ek het lapua doppe, cci200 primers en 87gr-vmax’e. Sonder om die wiel te herontwerp en 100de skote te skiet, voorgestelde lading met somchem 365?
Ek het ‘n nuwe Howa 243 22”, 1in10 twist. Ek het lapua doppe, cci200 primers en 87gr-vmax’e. Sonder om die wiel te herontwerp en 100de skote te skiet, voorgestelde lading met somchem 365?
Watter Lot S365 is dit? Van die later S365 was baie stadig, so daar is nie sommer 'n blanko resep nie. Jy sal moet laai en skiet. Kyk onder Herlaai Quick Load en gee al die inligting na jy geskiet het.
Ek sit met so jeuk en besluit om die 243 wat ek 2 jaar terug geskiet het uit die kluis te haal. Nadat ek doppe sonder donuts gebruik het was die resultate baie goed met die 87gr V-Max maar ek het nooit weer die swaarder koeels probeer nie.
Daarmee saam, sou van julle al agtergekom het dat ek van korter lope hou. So het toe die geweer gevat om te laat oor kroon op 20" en 'n pakkie 108gr ELD-M koeels gekoop. Ek wag nog vir die geweer want ek het terselfde tyd sommer die slot se handvatsel laat vervang met 'n reguit een wat ek ingevoer het van PT&G.
My vermoede (hoop) is dat die koeels gaan stabiliseer met die 9.125" twist (soos die ou A-Maxe gedoen het vir vele ander skuts) en dat ek so 2950fps uit die geweertjie kry. As voorsorg het ek sommer die nekke gedraai en so effe in die skouer gesny om daai donuts te probeer weghou.
Ek kan nou met sekerheid sê dat die 108gr nie hier stabiliseer nie en skeef deur die teiken gaan op 25m. Volgende sal ek dan die 95gr SMK toets wat hopelik beter resultate gaan gee.
Ek het die 103gr ook al probeer maar hulle het nie so gemaak nie. Groepering was nie great nie. Dit was wel op 'n ander plek en temperatuur.
Dit gaan interesant wees om te sien wat die koeels doen 1000m bo seevlak ... sal kyk of ek dit volgende naweek kan toets.
Wat lyk of dit kan werk is hierdie 3 opeenvolgende skote wat almal 3 thou uitmekaar gelaai is
Hier is nog 3 opeenvolgende skote wat almal 3 thou uitmekaar gelaai is
Lyk of iets sal werk 
